When It Worked Podcast WWTBAM – Hannah Tackett


when it worked – julian leahy

Julian: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the way to work podcast. You’re with the host, Julian Lee. Today I’m joined by the fantastic Hannah Tackett. Welcome to the show, Hannah. 

Hannah: Hello. So glad to be here. 

Julian: All right. So we’re going to play who wants to be a millionaire. And then we’re going to talk to Hannah about her serene business.

Serene coaching. What was it called? 

Hannah: Serene success. 

Julian: Serene success. All right. And um, with this game, Hannah, you’ve got three lifelines. If you’re not sure, make sure you use your lifelines. Let’s kick it off. First question for Hannah. An observation platform is called a crow’s nest and is traditionally on top of what?

Tree, building, boat, or mountain. 

Hannah: Mountain.

Julian: Is incorrect unfortunately Hannah. We did have all those lifelines too. The crow’s nest is actually on top of a ship. It’s the thing that you look at and you want to look for other boats or things like that. Nevertheless, uh, that’s a round of applause for Hannah. She tried. Can’t win them all and sometimes, uh, you get stuck on the first one.

All right, Hannah. Now, um, tell us about all the stuff you’ve been doing. Do you have a podcast as well? 

Hannah: I don’t, not yet. It’s coming. Um, but not right now. 

Julian: All right. Now your business Serene Success, uh, tell us a little bit about that and, and what led you to forming it. 

Hannah: Absolutely. So essentially I help professional women and burnout.

And what led me to that is experiencing my own burnout and, um, and recovering from that and talking to so many women who had no idea they’re on the path to burnout until essentially they’re in the middle of it and they’re already paying. the cost of burning out, which for some is, you know, quitting a job or walking away from a career or having health struggles.

And for me, it was, um, I couldn’t get out of bed. So I spent months, um, not being able to get up and it terrified me. I had young children. Um, I’d worked very hard for my career and I wasn’t ready to give it up and I needed the paycheck. So, um, So it’s a very pivotal kind of tipping point for me and 

Julian: that’s, uh, that’s a big sign, uh, your body telling you that, uh, something’s wrong.

And you were, you’re in the tech industry, was that right? Or yes. Yeah. So it’s not like you were, um, you know, a dog walker or something. You, you had a successful career. Sorry, sorry to dog walkers and, um, but how long did it take, uh, pursuing excellence in your field until you, you felt like you couldn’t get out of bed and were there some signs along the way?

Hannah: Absolutely. Goodness. How long did it take? Um, roughly 10 years. Let’s just, let’s just give it 10 years that I was working without. Um, and the signs and the symptoms, um, I like to think of burnout as like, it’s essentially an expression of unmanaged stress. And so the signs and symptoms, it kind of goes about in stages.

The first stage is like signs and symptoms of, you know, the stress is getting to you. So maybe you’re experiencing insomnia, gut problems, migraines. Um, fatigue. And then that second stage where I think is where it shifts from unmanaged stress to what we would typically start to label burnout is when we start feeling those emotional symptoms.

So we’re feeling resentment, um, disconnection, um, that feeling of overwhelm and dread. Like the Sunday scaries. You know, you don’t want to go to work. Um, and then the third phase of burnout is what people I think typically think burnout is, is like when your body stops. So when it starts to hit your ability to be productive, um, and to be able to perform at all.

And so for me, that was not getting out of bed for some women. It’s just, um, they start to see the productivity hits at work. So, um, they’re not able to show up like they used to be able to show up. They start to doubt themselves. The imposter syndrome starts to kick in and it becomes like this downward spiral.

Julian: Do you think that this, um, has something to do with Perfectionism. Hannah? 

Hannah: Absolutely. Yes. Yes. So I have like what I think of as like the five success traps where they’re, um, person that their behavior is that can drive us or lead us to success and perfectionism is one of them that went out of balance or when rooted in fear can also drive us to burnout.

And so for some women, it is the perfectionism, that negative self talk, the constant striving impossible standards at all times. For some of us. It’s the people pleasing the wanting to make everyone else around us happy. I mean, the boss has to be happy. The husband has to be happy. The kids have to be happy.

All of our coworkers, coworkers have to be happy, which isn’t, you know, it’s all that’s impossible. Um, and for some it’s the fear of saying no, or like what I like to think of as like being the nice girl. Like you never say no, you don’t put up your boundaries. You’ve got a fear of. Um, of the consequences of saying no to something that lands on your plate and that can lead to burnout as well.

So there’s, there’s behaviors and there’s patterns that can contribute to a burnout. Although I don’t think that perfectionism by itself is going to necessarily lead to a burnout because there’s external factors as well. 

Julian: Yes. And, um, you know, these factors combined, um, can actually be, uh, the motivator.

That allows you to achieve initial success. So how do you manage that? I mean, you know, you, you might think these things have had a bad effect, but they probably powered you on to, to get somewhere in the beginning. So, um, you know, can it be done a different way? And, um, or is it, you know, in some ways, has it been good for you the way you approach things originally?

Hannah: Right. So I think of it as a flip side of a coin. So with perfectionism, you have very high standards. You have, you know, high attention to detail. Um, maybe you have a reputation for the person who can get it tend to a certain, as to a certain, um, level of, of good, whatever that may mean. And then, you know, Out of that being out of balance becomes perfectionism, where you don’t know where to draw the line or where everything has to be perfect.

And there’s a lack of prioritization or it’s being driven by fear. And when perfectionism is being driven by or rooted in some kind of fear, whether that’s a fear of criticism, rejection, job loss, Um, not being good enough, not being important enough, um, then that can easily drive us to perfectionism. It’s no longer just having high standards, um, that, that becomes what people call perfectionism.

Julian: Yeah. And do you think that part of the solution to, to becoming better with this is to be more selfish? 

Hannah: I don’t know if selfish is the right word. Um, but ultimately, yes, prioritizing your own care. is, is the solution is, you know, ultimately the solution. Um, the reason I don’t think it’s selfish is because you can’t really pour from an empty cup.

If you have been giving to others to the point where there’s nothing left to give, um, You’re, you know, you’re the linchpin in your life, you’re the linchpin in your career, you’re the linchpin in your business. If you can’t show up, it doesn’t exist for you and for the people that you care about. So taking care of yourself is not selfish.

It is, it’s just a basic requirement. And we’re A lot of us, especially women, have kind of been pulled away from that is that we’re told it’s selfish. We’re told that we need to take care of others first, put others first, put the business first, put yourself last, and we fall into that trap of, of self destruction.

And self destruction is not, um, selfless. It’s self destruction. It’s, it’s not good. It’s not healthy. And so taking the time to prioritize your health, taking the money to invest in yourself and in your own care, to shift your mindset away from fear, to shift your mindset away from constant self neglect.

That is not selfish. That is, um, that is critical to being a functional member of society. That is critical to being a leader in business or in your career. It is, it is critical to being a good mom or a good wife. 

Julian: Absolutely. And, um, and what type of people do you work with, Hannah? I know you sort of, um, deal mostly with professional women.

What types of, uh, business businesses do they come from? 

Hannah: Well, obviously a lot of women from tech because that’s where, um, where my roots are. Uh, also lawyer, lawyers, pharmacists, um, folks in healthcare, nursing. So I mean the, the bit, the industry varies. Most of them are male dominant. Most of them are pretty intense.

And, but the common ground that they all have is that they have given too much. They have nothing left to give or they’re on their way there. And they’re seeing the results of that and whether those results are health, their health is deteriorating. They have no more energy or performance or both, where they’re not able to get to the next level.

Um, or they’re afraid to get to the next level because, God forbid, they actually get what they want and they have to work more. Um, and, and they want to turn that around. 

Julian: And what are some of the outcomes, uh, that you see for these people that, uh, are, I guess, the, the ideal outcome? What are you trying to, to get these people to do?

Is it move into it? a different, um, job or just kind of restructure the life completely. Um, yeah, what, what are some of the things that you’re helping people get towards? 

Hannah: The outcome is shifting from having dread when you wake up in the morning to feeling light and excited. For your life and having the energy and the focus to go and get what you want and to be excited and feel fulfilled doing it.

Now, whether that’s in the same job, same career, completely different career, um, that just depends on the individual. I don’t think I, I turned mine around without having to quit my job or leave my career. So you don’t have to burn it all down. Um, like I know that’s like a myth, like, oh just, you know, quit your job and go churn butter in the woods, you’ll feel better.

Not necessarily. 

Julian: Um, so, yeah, so, um, and what does it look like for the people that have stayed in the area that they’re in, and in their job perhaps? or industry and what are they now doing to take better care of themselves? 

Hannah: Absolutely. So I think the first thing is learning to say no. Well, the first thing is learning is pursuing your yes.

So, um, instead of just yes to everything that’s on your plate, you’re, you know, triple booked critical booked all day long. I’m getting really clear about what you are saying yes to, and then saying no to the rest. And surprising things happen when we start to say no. A lot of us are afraid, like, oh, I’m going to get laid off, especially in the current environment.

But what I’ve seen actually happen is they get promoted. 

Julian: Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it? It’s um, assertiveness. Firstly, there is, I agree, that um, there is an encouragement for women maybe not to be assertive, or people don’t like it if women are assertive. Whereas it’s more expected of men to be assertive in professional situations.

So there’s definitely some, um, encouragement not to be assertive. You’ll get called a bitch, but perhaps, um, but when you flip it around and, um, I’ve worked with women that come in and just, and you just start, whoa, he said, okay, well, this, this, uh, I was going to say chick, but I won’t say that, but this person is not taking any crap.

And you really, um, You give them more stuff and they do better at the job and, you know, so it’s not really going to have a negative outcome, is it? 

Hannah: No, no, um, not typically. And there’s ways to say no, and that’s something that, you know, I work with my, my clients on is the no as a skill. And there’s different ways to go about saying no.

And sometimes it’s a negotiation and sometimes that’s like a this or that conversation or prioritization conversation, or maybe it’s a conversation about resourcing. And when you can have those conversations with confidence, then you’re seen as a more valuable asset. Because you’re seen as someone who can find a way to get it done, even if it’s not shouldering the entire burden yourself.

Julian: Yeah, and the assertiveness and, and, and saying no, and that’s going to help you actually deliver because you’re going to be able to say, look, I, I know what you, you want to do, but we’ve got this amount of limitations and I’m not able to do that based on what we’ve got. So I’m going to need this and, uh, Yeah, so I guess it, it’s, it’s seems like it’s a part of what you’re doing is assertiveness training as, as well.

Would you say that’s a big part of it, Hannah? 

Hannah: Absolutely. I don’t think I’ve ever framed it that way, but yes. 

Julian: Yeah. Being 

Hannah: able to honor your yes and no, it’s assertiveness, assertiveness training. It’s stepping into your own power, using your voice. 

Julian: Yeah. Absolutely. It’s, uh, it’s good stuff. And, um, you know, it’s, uh, some people call it, uh, psychology or, um, various other things, but, uh, these are all really great skills to develop.

And what is the first thing that happens if, if people want to reach out, uh, to you, Hannah? Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, they book a call and then what do you, what normally happens from there? 

Hannah: Well, we take a look at where they are today and what’s keeping them where they are today, where they would like to be and what’s, what is in their way.

And we identify the first, you know, the biggest shifters, the biggest, biggest things that they need to change and then, um, get a plan together for them to do that. And they can choose to either do that with me or, or work on their own either way. I am there to support them. 

Julian: And the ones that work with you, uh, do you have a zoom with them every month or How does it work?

Weekly. It’s a, 

Hannah: yeah, so it’s a weekly group program with, um, monthly one on ones so that they get both the community support and the deep, um, one on one confidential deep dives. 

Julian: That sounds great. Yeah. The, uh, having the community kind of aspect to it, that’s really good for accountability and encouragement and, um, you’re going to need it a little bit of one on one as well.

So you’ve got that in there. That sounds really cool, Hannah. And, um, if anybody wants to, uh, have a chat to Hannah. And, um, you know, you need to make some changes. We all get to a point where we go, This is bad. I need to change something. I’m not sure what it is. I go through these periods. And, uh, I speak to somebody.

Get a plan and you feel so much better. You get your direction sorted. And you’ve got to do this periodically. If you are in that space, which I’ve been in many times, uh, have a chat to Hannah. And, um, especially if you’re a woman in tech, would you say, Hannah? 

Hannah: Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m very familiar with the world.

So yeah. 

Julian: Wonderful. I’ve had a couple of, uh, um, women in tech before. Very interesting. Uh, doing some, uh, very interesting stuff. Web3 stuff. I pretended I understood it, but you know, awesome. Well thanks very much, Hannah. That was, uh, great stuff. Uh, Hannah Tackett, let’s have a round of applause for Hannah. All right.

I’m going to wrap things up now. Thanks very much, Hannah. If you want to get in touch with Hannah, the, uh, details are in the show notes. See you next time.

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When It Worked

with Julian Leahy

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